The following martial arts marketing ideas and martial arts business growth strategies was orginally recorded during a telephone interview. This is the raw and UN-edited transcript.

Martial Arts Business System bringing you some powerful martial arts marketing ideas.

This interview is with Ivy League educated attorney and master of the art of ethical persuasion… Dave Frees.

He has written and contributed to four books, The Language of Parenting, Einstein’s Business, [indiscernible] and the Ultimate Success Secret. Dave has appeared on Fox, NPR and PBS discussing family communication and business and persuasion skills and Steven Forbes, Editor In Chief of Forbes Magazine has called Dave Frees, a Grandmaster of Family Communication skills and reviewers of his books have called him a genius and one of the 50 top thinkers on business in America today.

According to many audience reviews including me, his stuff is pure genius. So get ready to enjoy some entertainment and powerful skills that will enhance your business. Well, Dave, welcome, how are you?

A: I am very good. Thank you for having me on.

Q: Oh I really appreciate you taking the time.

A: That was an awesome introduction by the way. I am assuming you just made a lot of that up.

Q: But a lot of it came from the heart.

A: I sounded good.

Q: Yeah you did. So after that introduction, we can’t wait to hear what you have to say, so..

A: I’ve got to deliver.

Q: Right and I know you will. So anyway, I had you on the – you were kind enough to come on the Raising Awareness program. You know, you have your book on the Language of Parenting which I own and you gave us some really powerful information and I’ve actually been using it with my daughter. I know you can [indiscernible] yet you know so folks would have to listen to that interview to get those parenting skills and when I am talking to them, like you know, we got to have this guy talking on Persuasion to our members and by coincidence, you actually have a martial arts background, correct?

A: I do, just by coincidence.

Q: Okay and tell us a little bit about that?

A: Well I trained years and years and years ago and then one of my kids got interested when they were four and five and six. I went back and trained while they were training and got my 2nd Dan in Taekwondo and then the 2nd Dan in Hapkido and I was then able to be their instructor when they were testing you know for the belts between 1st Dan and 2nd Dan as they got older. My kids trained for about ten years before they went to college each and they still train but they are not competing or anything anymore and I did it exclusively so that they would have to bow [Indiscernible 3:37] to me. That’s my whole plan and that worked out pretty well.

Q: Okay. Something for me to keep in mind.

A: I am a huge fan of the martial arts for kids and adults. In terms of the self discipline it builds, the self reliance, it was just unparalleled.

Q: Yeah it’s a good thing. So what we do is we really specialize and help the people kind of get the word out in the most effective manner one in the marketing department on messages and then obviously in house when it comes to actually converting some of those leads and parents and prospects to becoming members and doing something that we know is going to be good for them but sometimes it doesn’t always work that way. So maybe you can help some of our people with that in some of that area. So I mean, what can you really tell us about Persuasion and then you know, knowing what it’s like to be. I mean there is all kinds of different schools. I mean, there is some schools that we label very commercial and very professional and that’s not actually a bad thing because if the quality of martial arts is good, it’s a great thing and then obviously there are some schools that are a little smaller and are just kind of being introduced to these kind of principles. So what would you kind of – to give us little bit of overview, how would you just kind of start on that?

A: Sure. First thing is that I think everybody has to get over the idea that Persuasion has a negative or influence has a negative quality to it. You know, a lot of times where people hear the expression Persuasion or the expression, Enhanced Influence, they think of manipulation and I mean we are just meeting one another and talking for the first time for the people listening in but I come from a place where my word is very important to me and I deal with it this way. I see the business people at the outset.

All human communication is manipulation. No matter what you are trying to do, you are trying to persuade someone. You are trying to have a conversation with them or you inform them or educate them. You are trying to get them to do something that’s good for them. Whatever it is and whoever you are talking to, in some way, shape or form, you are trying to manipulate them.

If you’re trying to grow your martial arts business through effective martial arts marketing you will have to be persuasive. So we have to get over the idea that it’s a negative thing. Persuasion and Enhanced Communication and Enhanced Ethical Influence are all designed ultimately to bring people to you and have you training in your schools and to make you more profitable and to make them more satisfied and to make you more valuable to them. In order to do that and here is the key. This is what makes the difference between the sort of negative manipulation and persuasion is what’s your intent? If you are not willing to take the time using these pretty manipulative techniques that we are about to learn, you are not willing to take the time to learn what’s important to the parents and to the kids and what’s important to your adults that are training with you and how your service helps them to overcome problems they have in their life and to achieve the goals that they have for themselves.

If you are not willing to learn that and be sure that your product, your services can deliver that, then you are manipulating people if you get them to come in and pay you and in the short run, that might work but in the long run, you are not likely to get the most out of that relationship, the most long-term backend dollar which is where really a lot of the profits are.

Q: Well how do you lay that foundation in the beginning without kind of turning people off so to say because especially not just in tougher times, but any times. How can you lay that foundation for one you know, you are getting inquiries and then you are taking the steps to getting a high percentage to literally become students and then how do you lay that foundation from a Persuasion standpoint for the long-term relationship?

A: Sure. A couple of things. One is that you have to take a step back even from that. When you are constructing your program or if you have constructed your program, you have got to start asking people what is it that worries you, what is it that Martial arts does for you, what is it about your child that worries you, what is it about Martial arts that you find most beneficial to your child. Ask your existing people with whom you have a high level of rapport already and where they feel there is a lot of value. Ask people for testimonials and we are going to talk a little bit about that today. The ways in which you ask for testimonials because testimonials will help you to flush out and to understand what people find most valuable but in order to lay the foundation for real persuasion and influence and the long term relationship with clients and customers and to sell them products and the services of your program, you’ve got to know what is it that’s most important to them and you’ve got to make sure that its present in your program.

A lot of us in business and listen, I am guilty of this all the time. Even though, I know what I am doing, I still make this mistake. I come up with the stuff that I know is great for them and I know is important for them but if it’s not valued by them, you know what, they are not going to buy it. They are not going to stay on and so if we know that there are things important to them, if we know that developing their arts – the martial arts to the point where they could use it for self defense so it makes them safer traveling through this world but if we know that that takes a while to do that, and we find out that the clients don’t value that, the customers don’t value that, then we have to persuade them to train using the things that they find valuable and important to them and then when we’ve got rapport with them and we’ve shown them all these advantages that they find important, then we have to say, we will go over here. I’ve got something else that I want to show you. It is that when you stick with this and you train this way for this long with this level of expertise, you are going to have a whole new way of being able to defend yourself in a world that’s filled with danger and well, that may not be important to you, that’s a real benefit and by now, they build rapport with you.

They understand that you are going to be showing them things they didn’t even know about the martial arts. [Indiscernible 9:42], we are first talking to people and we are first in this early process of sales with them. We have to know what’s motivating them, what are they afraid of, what do they most value, what do they most want out of life and how could our products and services deliver that.

Then we build rapport with them as part of that foundation so they trust us to talk to them about the other things but a lot of times, we develop this thing that we think and we know deep down is really, really, really, really valuable to the customer but the customer doesn’t have the knowledge that we do yet. So they are incapable of recognizing that value. So we’ve got to start by selling to people or persuading people in an area where we agree and that is what’s of value to the client or to the customer.

So let me give you a quick example of that. When you are negotiating in business, do you start fighting about the stuff you disagree about? No. You always start your negotiation by trying to find something that you agree upon.

Q: Right.

A: So you can actually say those words. Well I agree with you about that because now that is potentially transformational in your relationship with this other party that you are negotiating with and I use the example if I can refer to it for a second that you were alluding to it when we talked about the kids where I said, have you ever tried to get a kid to do something that they should really do, take a music lesson, take a martial arts lesson, go to gym, do their homework where you say, do this. They say no, I can’t probably because they really believe they can’t, they are afraid, they don’t’ know what to do next and when a child says or even an adult or an instructor that’s working for you, I can’t because they are afraid of something. What does a supportive parent say? Yes, you can.

Q: Yes you can.

A: Right. Yes, you can do it. Now what that is its argument. So we are disagreeing and we just told the child to do something. The child told us I can’t and now we’ve said, yes, you can. So what they do is they go inside and they think of all the reasons that they are right and you are wrong and we are moving further, further apart. You want to start from agreement. So in this example I’ve given you with the child, what I learned to say is, I know you feel like you can’t. Now that sounds like agreement and the child goes, yeah. Dad gets me. I told him I can’t and he said I know I feel like I can’t but notice the difference there. I can’t, is much more permanent than I feel like I can’t.

Q: Right.

A: I feel like I can’t. That’s something you know, now but it could change and I even go one step further and I say, I know you feel like you can’t yet and when you say, yet, that’s a presupposition – pardon my scratchiness. That presupposes that they are going to be able to do it and they cannot understand your sentence without feeling at some level like they might be able to in the future.

Q: I think what you just gave everybody just now without even knowing it and I do want to make sure I point this out while you sip the water. You just gave everybody a really powerful retention tool.

A: Yes.

Q: Because many times and maybe you knew that from your martial – from your background, you have seen all people drop off as you went through your ten-year journey with your kids. You know, so many times, you are in there where you are trying to save a student. You know, what I have seen especially because my first school was in the Intercity and it’s a shame. You know you find kids, you know like, man! You know, we lost that one and you hear about all the terrible things that ended up happening in their lives. I mean this is – I grew up with this and I saw it play out and you know I – man! Anything that I could do with in terms of retention, it was so important to me and it’s very important to our clients. So hope they rewind the recording there and go back and listen to that again because when any of their students is in the office or just – if you are lucky enough to be told by the parent, you know, you feel like you can’t do this, you just listen to what they’ve told you just now and you could probably save a whole bunch more of them.

A: And I would say this is applicable when parents are coming in. I mean does anybody – do you ever get the objection like, I can’t afford this.

Q: Yeah, let’s talk about that. Go ahead.

A: Yeah. So now if you’ve been listening to your customers and your potential customer comes in and you describe all of these things that you are going to be able to do for them or for the child and therefore derivatively [indiscernible 13:48] to them. By the way, I need to interrupt my own thought for a second. When parents of Martial arts kids come in, we assume that they want their kids to get all of these things and that what the kid is going to get is of paramount importance and it probably is but we forget then that overpowers that the parent is often looking for something out of this too.

Q: Right, right.

A: And we’ve got to be aware of that because those are not the same. In other words, the parent may want the kid to be able to defend themselves and have more confidence or a little bit more self discipline but the parent wants a child who behaves better, the parent wants a child who does their homework without being told to, the parent may not want to watch, the parent may want to drop that child off for an hour and listen, that may or may not be consistent with your values but that – if that’s what that parent wants and you could deliver that safely and positively along with all these other benefits for the parent and child, you got to know that.

Q: Right.

A: So that’s why I am saying, you got to find out and that not everyone brings their child to a martial arts program for the same reasons or trains themselves for the same reasons and they don’t train for the same reasons you trained. We are not our customers.

Q: Exactly.

A: That’s why we’ve got to make an effort to find out.

Q: Yeah we – you know, over time we have a lot of martial arts marketing materials on our site and what I tell members all the time is you got to test – all of them have been tested but you know you may hit a list with how to defeat the bully that may not resonate with some but will with others and then you get the next one to you, the self disciplined resonant. So everyone’s tastes are going to be different [Indiscernible 15:24]. So can you go into the “can’t afford it” things? Lot of people have that on their minds. I know they do.

A: Yeah people say it’s too expensive. I mean, one response that they say, I know you feel like you can’t afford this yet or I know you feel right now that you can’t afford this yet because what you are going to do is like you are saying, like this is a feeling you have right now but it’s subject to change when you say yet. When you say I know you feel right now at this moment like you can’t afford this yet.

Q: Right.

A: You are about to show them reasons why a few minutes later as opposed to right now, they can. So one of the things is to say, this is expensive compared to what? What are you comparing it to because there is a lot of people when they hear the price of Martial arts training say, Jeez, that’s expensive but if they compare it to a sport or to childcare or to you know, the cost of having a tutor and all of these other things where you might be able to deliver improved study habits, improved self discipline, the time that the parent has off when the child is training. There are all of these benefits but when they add those up, the cost of martial arts training might be very, very low by comparison. Another thing is to say, I know you feel right now like you can’t afford this just yet but what would have to change, what other value would you have to get in order to feel like you could afford this and it was not only just affordable but a great investment for you or in your child. You see the difference there?

Q: Right.

A: What would have to change? They will often times tell you. They might say, well, you know, I can’t come twice a week and I really feel like for that money, I’ve got to train twice a week while we have this time on the weekends.

Q: Right.

A: Well we can’t always get here on the weekends. Well, you know, is there anybody in your neighborhood, do you have any students training here where you could every other week alternate. There are ways to find that out but you got to ask that and the answer to that question, you will often be surprised by and frequently it will be an answer that you have a simple answer to. You know, well, I am afraid they will have less time to study and they are on the verge with homework. Well, you could say I think one of the reasons you might have come here is because you know that martial arts offers greater self-discipline and a greater self-discipline often translates into other areas of life and in fact at our school, we explicitly teach ways to take the self-discipline they are learning and to generalize it into other areas of their life by schoolwork so that they do that more effortlessly and they do that with more self-discipline and so that’s far from the fact that they train twice a week, far from it taking away from the study and by the way, there are studies on this and here is it. I am going to – whatever your folks pay you, they are about to get their monies worth right now.

Any topic whether it’s martial arts or any business, any topic you are interested in, if you want to find research on it, you will go in and you will search “martial arts and improved grades” or “martial arts and better academic skills”. You will put those search terms in and then you will say, and “.ppt” because what that’s going to do is, it is going to search for your search terms only in documents that have the PPT or PowerPoint extension and it’s going to bring up all these PowerPoints that people in research have prepared and not locked it down. That describe their research and their study and their information in all these areas. You can also do that with “And .pdf” and then it is going to find all the pdfs of research in this area and it is a phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal, phenomenal research tool.

Now a lot of people that come to see you won’t care about research end of that but if somebody says to you, hey, I am worried about the grades. Probably by the way, they are not, probably, they have come to you because they think at some level that you will be able to help them and they want to hear that they are not mistaken about that and so if you say, look, it’s my experience that based on the way we teach specifically with the idea of helping students to improve their grades, but their grades do improve and that the extra time they spend training is a help, and not a hindrance to improve the grades. By the way, here are some studies that you can pull off the internet or here is the photocopy of them or a lot of times, you can get the permission of the author to photocopy him anyway. That tells you that that scientists in double-blind studies at two universities have come to this same conclusion.

Q: Oh I love it. Maybe you can shoot me an email with that. I am going to go back and listen again any way but yeah…

A: Yeah but whatever your search terms are and “.ppt” and “.pdf”. I mean that is huge and I tell you, I want to give credit for [indiscernible 20:10]. The very first person to tell me that was Rich Schefren who is an Internet marketing guru.

Q: Yeah, yeah.

A: You know, I hang out with those guys and Rich is a very smart guy and he told me and then I taught it [indiscernible 20:20] to a bunch of lawyers and the next week, one of these lawyers emailed me and said, “the Dude” meaning me, is a genius and he said, I had this guy and had this trough and he had this very unusual argument that he was making and so I used your method and I put the search terms in, his name, and these topics and then I said, “and ppt or .pdf” and he came up with the guys article that he had written on just this thing citing all of his citations so that when they went to trial, my lawyer who I had trained knew exactly what was going on.

Q: Well that will be actually distributed to our members. Anything I find, I will do the research for them and they will have some backup.

A: And all you have to do is say, “The dude” parenthetically Dave Frees is a genius and they will know to come to my website then.

Q: Absolutely. Since [indiscernible 21:14]. Dave Frees, your websites again, I know we had and I am not in front of it – Success technologies. What were some of the sites they can describe at some of your email newsletters and stuff?

A: Sure. There is some sites where they could get some really good free resources and then from time to time, we will have materials that supplement those and that we think are really valuable and we will sell them to you and you will only buy them if you love the – like we give away free stuff that is so powerful that you cannot resist buying the stuff when it comes out because you go, “If Dave gives me this stuff, imagine what I will get if I pay him some money” and one of those sites where you could get a lot of the cool and free stuff and don’t go here if you don’t want to ultimately buy something because people have told me before, like “Oh I went there, I thought I will get all the free stuff and then I would not buy anything and sure enough, I did buy something and then those people give me phenomenal testimonials but if you want the free stuff, go to and that gives you access to lots of videos that I do teaching these persuasion and I have communication techniques, lots of business and marketing advise and various kinds of resources we come across like that one that I just shared with you. That’s where I share all this kind of business enhancement and communication skills and personal mind hacks and things that make you better at what you do and as martial artist, I think I find a lot of stuff there that enhances your martial arts as well as your business skills as well as your personal skills in relationships. I mean, this stuff is built to teach people to be better communicators, persuaders and to be more influential and then build more successful marketing and businesses but of course, all that translates into, when you are better communicator, you become a better negotiator, you become a better parent, you become a better spouse or partner, you become a better date. It depends on where you are in life but you are better at negotiating, you are just better at managing people. So that’s one resource.

Certainly, if people want the day-to-day stuff that I come across that’s very interesting, we get it out to you the fastest possible way, you could follow me on Twitter so you go, if you are Facebook person, you could follow me there. You could find me as David M. Frees or on Facebook, you could use the email address to find me. So there is three places where you could go to have access to the free information.

Q: Well cool. Awesome. Well, I will say that again in a few minutes as we are wrapping up. Now a lot of times Dave, I mean you gave us really great tips because a lot of people deal with that all the time. They can’t afford it and of course you are not going to get every single person but I think you know, if you improve your percentages by just a little bit it pays for itself.

A: Sure.

Q: Now a question I get a lot from members and we do a lot on the marketing side of things and this one is more so from the newer members but all right, you are talking about effective persuasion when someone is already kind of in the doors and you know, there is obviously steps for moving them along and you find out what’s important to them now and then showing them what’s going to be – what’s beneficial for them as you are moving forward. Now how about getting – how do you communicate and get those what I call those suspects – people that you would like to have in your business or in your studio and turn them into prospects and eventually paying students. So what are some of your – I thought this is more of a marketing question and obviously you aren’t a street marketer. So let’s talk a little bit about that. What are your thoughts on that?

A: Sure. My preferred and in case anybody wonders, they say like oh! You were teaching your kids in that martial arts school and you know, you weren’t responsible for bringing people in, but I brought lots of people in, number one and number two, I run a professional practice that relies very, very significantly on bringing in lots and lots of new people every year because when lawyers do Twills and Trust for people, it’s often a cycle of 5 to 7 years till the client comes back. So there is a couple of things that this section of the firm that I remember, we have almost 8000 clients. So that would tell you that we are pretty good at doing what we are talking about here. And there are similarities because we are both service businesses. There is not a thing that people pay all this money for and get it. There is a concept. So there is a lot of similarities here and one of the things that you will find I think and that I will find and that we do find is that our single most important source of new clients in our case, customers of yours coming in the door are referrals from existing customers. So one of the ways to do this is to make sure that customers feel comfortable if not compelled to introduce new people to you.

So there are ways to do that. We could talk about those. Another thing to bear in mind is that your existing customers are always the easiest ones to resell to because you have all this credibility and so don’t ignore the possibility that there are – there is money within your business or a business within your business. In other words, something else that you could be selling those existing customers. So – and everybody may say, well, this is not my cup of tea what you are describing Dave. I am just describing this as an example of what I am talking about.

Q: Well in our model, we have basic programs and then there is a [Indiscernible 27:10] along to the upgraded and more committed black belt programs. So everyone who has listened to this is very attuned to what you have seen so.

A: And I would say that every kid they train is either a weekend program or sometimes they come with their parents, we have an extra fee. Is there a yoga program that the parents could do while the kids are training, is there – again I am not saying this is the thing. I am giving you an example.

Q: Right.

A: Is there a book on how Martial Arts improve study habits that you could be selling. Is there a packet you could put together, a home training course where you know, you have the parents learn how to use the martial arts skills to help them you know, to get the kid to clean up their room at home. I mean there is all kinds of things that you could be selling, up selling, cross selling to your existing customer base that they may really be dying to have and the way you find out – again I encourage you not to go and develop something and then find out if people want it. What I encourage you to do is find out what people want like if parents are there watching or when they are signing up say, is there anything else that you would love, is there a training program for you, if you give them examples, what else would benefit you or your family, what worries you about your child that we can make sure gets addressed.

They are going to tell you things that make these ancillary products and services really obvious to you and it is coming from the customer rather than you spending a lot of time and energy and money. I used to work with a bunch of martial arts school owners and they were constantly going out, developing products, shooting videos, editing videos, making marketing materials only to find out that no one was interested in this topic. When if they had simply asked either an internet survey something that goes with the bill.

I guess a lot of your guys are on an Auto Pay, something that gets handed out in a packet you know, each week when the kid trains that says, you know, you are going to get a three – I don’t know what stall your guys are but you know like there was always board breaking in the schools that we taught and so, kids will get a free board if their parents filled up this questionnaire and this survey and sent it back. There are all kinds of things that you could do to find out what it is that the parents and the kids want and what the kids want for themselves and what the parents want for themselves and what they want for one another.

Q: Right and what we do is we always look at ways to either sell these things to add dollars or you can obviously boost your revenue by just kind of bundling these kinds of services. Like for instance, the month of May is Date your mate month. So of course, all the studio owners oh! You know, go ahead with parents but this is a fun way to kind of do this. It’s a revenue generator.

A: Right.

Q: Now getting back to because we do a lot of things in referrals, what do you think would be if you were, all right. One key [indiscernible 30:08] 8000 clients, what do you – beyond just being who you are and this value and information to your people, what do you think has been driving your referral business all these days?

A: Well let me give you a couple of ways that you can radically enhance referral if you are not doing it and a couple of pieces of information you need to know. Referral is most likely to take place in the few hours and days after the customer initially buys from you, believe it or not.

Q: Right.

A: Now you are lucky in terms of referrals unlike us the client comes, they see us for a couple of meetings and then they may not see us again for many years. So the likelihood that they are going to make a referral drops off dramatically not because they are not happy but you are just not on top of mind any more.

Q: Or in [indiscernible30:55] States I mean.

A: It could be long time yeah but your guys are training with you all the time. So you have the unique opportunity to be top of mind with them. For just couple of weeks, you do that. One is at the time of sale you probably have a pretty happy perspective customer now turned into a customer. At the time of sale, you probably want to say, listen, if you know other parents or other people similarly situated to you [indiscernible 31:23] if it’s not the parent of a child where this could be beneficial or you know, if somebody want to train, I want to give you this packet. This is something that you could share with people about the benefits of martial arts training and here is my card. Now, you will find people come [indiscernible 31:35] back in with those.

You can incentivize that or not. You could say like you know, there is two ways to incentivize that too. One is you may find it even more fun to train with a friend or a family member. So I am going to give you this. You may incentivize it by saying if your friend or family member comes in and signs up, you get a month free or whatever it is or you may incentivize it by saying both.

Q: Right.

A: You know like for example, we get a lot of people through direct referral and it’s because we do a good job for them. So I want to give you this so that if there is a friend or a family member you would like to train with if you can and by the way, not only will that friend or family member get a discount, but you are going to get a discount. So there is lots of ways that you can ethically incentivize that. I would say another thing to do is to revisit this referral like after the first lesson, I would have somebody say, how was that? Did we meet all your expectations? Is there anything else we need to do for you now to be sure that this martial arts training experience is going to be everything that you hope that it would be. Now they are going to be probably pretty excited after that first lesson true?

Q: Absolutely.

A: So one of the things I would do is I would have them do a testimonial. Hey, this is the end of my first lesson and I was worried about it. I thought it was going to be too much money but like just now, I already know, this is money well spent. Hey, this is my first lesson. I wasn’t sure I could lose weight using this but I am so enthusiastic. I feel so good. I know this is going to work for me. So you then use these testimonials to answer specific objections that people have in the sales process.

Q: Right.

A: And you can use those in your premarketing and then you know in your closing. Another thing that doing the testimonial does is it makes it way more likely that somebody is going to make the referral and way less likely that they are just going to back out because by giving you a testimonial even if it’s just your face, but it’s way better if you record it again on a quick little recorder or you record it on a voice recorder or you have them write it down or check off a box where you give them three or four things they could check off and say about you. So it’s easy but they are way less likely to a week or two weeks or ten days or a month or two months later feel like they are not getting the best out of it because they said upfront that they are. I would also do these following tests.

So when somebody tests and they have a really great experience, you go to them and say, are we living up to everything? This is valuable data collection [indiscernible] if you are not, it’s important you know. Are we delivering everything to you that you wanted, is it working out, and again, get them to give you a little testimonial because when they do that, again they are reconfirming their commitment to the program and it makes them much more likely to make the referral or in my business, we call an introduction to somebody, so.

Q: Yeah and then a lot of times, I mean, I teach my clients [indiscernible] to capitalize and again it’s called manipulation if you want – but capitalize on the natural emotional highs that these things are going to go through.

A: Sure.

Q: So I think you really did validate that for us so I appreciate that.

A: Yeah there is no question about it. That’s when you want to be asking those questions and asking for those testimonials and getting them to reconfirm their commitment because again retention is way cheaper than going out and finding a new client.

Q: Yeah I really love the way you are talking about getting the testimonial early on. That’s very key and very important. So I encourage people to make sure they are asking those questions early on to get that positive feedback.

A: Yeah because they are most enthusiastic about training in certain times and the people who you know and I know become great martial artists are the ones that George Leonard says in his book Mastery are the ones that love the plateau. Between belts, there is this long periods of time we are just doing training that has a purpose, but it’s not exciting in and of itself.

Q: Right.

A: And it’s good to get testimonials from people after that effect from time to time, but capturing them when they have those excitement when you’ve got that big uptick either because they are preparing for a test, they are now synthesizing and putting it together all the things they learned in the plateau. That’s pretty powerful and that really shows in those testimonials but you get those testimonials and never use it for anything and still have it be a great retention device.

Q: Oh yeah of course and just the fact that they are making that kind of outward commitment to you and they are subconsciously making that commitment as well, then they are kind of committing themselves in a way and it’s very powerful. So would you kind of sum it up saying, I mean just, you really got to be, you gave us a lot of strategies and maybe, if you will [indiscernible] on everything at once, but it’s all the little things that are going to add up, would that be a good summation?

A: Sure and if you do any one of these, you are likely to – if I had to give you two pieces of information to take away with you, one would be that people don’t make rational decisions to train in the martial arts.

Q: Right.

A: They make emotional decisions and then the leader justify them with rational information. So you got to have both but understand the initial decision is made not in the rational centers of the brain but in the center of the brain that desires something for themselves and/or their [indiscernible] and when you learn that and so that you – when you start to find out what it is that really highly motivates the vast majority of your customers, you find out what their fears are and you are able to show them ways to avoid it. When you find out what their desires are for themselves and/or their kids and you show them how this money is well spent in this training and we will provide it for them. You are going to be way, way, way, way, way ahead of your competition. So that’s the thing at the big strategic level. At the sort of more tactical level, well I would say that understanding that, doing your marketing in such a way that makes people stand up and volunteer and come in because they are interested is going to shorten your sale cycle a lot.

Q: Right.

A: People are going to be presenting because they’ve either read a book that you produced or a pamphlet or you know, so your marketing should be offering them something of value so that you identify them and then continue to auto respond or whatever to provide them with information and when that starts to happen, that people are coming in, you are going to find that they are much, much easier to sell and that these persuasive tactics were telling you about face-to-face selling that they will be natural to you, but you will spend far less time doing it.

Q: And so it should be icing on the cake?

A: Yeah.

Q: Really.

A: And that will – and if you do these other things that we are talking about, you are going to retain more people which puts more money in your pocket because you are going to be spending less to go out and get new folks and when you get those people to refer more people who are going to be like them and you retain them very easily and they come to you with the referral which is to say all the trust and confidence that the other person built in, they are going to be a much easier sell. Those are the key points that I would take away from today.

Q: Well I would say that it’s very powerful 30 minutes there now. You gave us the couple of lessons. I want you to talk – give us those one more time and then you had a program kind of that I think is pretty much all of your persuasive knowledge right.

A: Yes.

Q: Kind of…can you tell us about that?

A: Sure let me tell you about that. That’s going to be rolled out on the internet soon but I am going to give you guys a little jumpstart on that if anybody wants it. They could go again to for the free step. They can also follow me on Twitter on davefrees or on Facebook. In terms of the product, persuasion to [indiscernible] which I just – I mean, literally you got me like off the plane from Chicago where I spoke at the Super conference where [indiscernible] spoke. I mean it was just fascinating and there I rolled out live for the first time persuasion to profit and there were two versions of it. One was 697 and one was 1297. You might go, Holy cow but my point is with this is that this contains a sort of step-by-step process of all the strategies, the inner gain stuff having to do with persuasion and the outer gain tactical stuff that you can use in your copywriting, that you use in face-to-face selling, that you can use in your management of your staff, your management of your instructors, managing the relationship with the kids and with the parents and that this – you need to – how many sales do you need to recapture 697 is the question you need to ask yourself. What I am going to do for the 1297 involves coaching and things like that. So if any of your people are interested in that program, you and I will work that out together. So if they want the face-to-face coaching with you and me and also Dave Weiman who is a marketing psychologist. There are five teleseminars they go through, they get a free marketing console. There is a lot to that but if they want the product itself, I am not in the habit of discounting the product, so it’s 697 but I am going to throw in a bunch of extra stuff for your guys to make that worth more to them and in fact, one of the things I will do which I don’t usually do without [indiscernible] I will give them a half hour long consultation which they could do with me or you only whichever you want to do. A lot of times it’s useful for them to know that someone that’s got that martial arts background is in on this thing and [indiscernible] steer them in the right direction. So we are going to – for 697, what they would get is a series of 6 CDs, the transcripts of all the instruction inner game and outer game. What do I need, what barriers do I need to get rid of so that I am great at this, what strategies do I need to know and then specific little tactics like the six word question I taught on your other program.

Q: Right.

A: There are little tactics they can use that work on the biology of persuasion. They change how another person’s neurochemistry is working so that it works better for you. Let me give you an example. There is something in this program that is awesome. Curious?

Q: Absolutely.

A: See, that’s called the Zygonic effect. I say something that changes your neurochemistry. I said it in a way I lowered my voice and I made it sound very interesting. Now, you got to be able to deliver on that. Another thing that’s also about this program is that six word question that changes everything which is when somebody is refusing, you say, they say, I can’t do it and you say, what would happen if you could, what would happen if you did, because they cannot understand that question without changing the perception of themselves. They must imagine themselves being able to do it. So…

Q: I think that’s a very generous offer and we definitely do appreciate that but now, this interview will also be archived. So years from now, people can hear this as well. So where will this program be? On what Url?

A: Yeah well, they could go. It’s not up yet because the rollout hasn’t happened yet but it’s up on It will also be up on www.redwirepress and we are going to give them a discount even though I don’t usually do that. If they mention Mike D. when they order, there will be like a coupon code where they could do that or if you call in, let me give you a number. If you wanted this now, you could call 610-933-8069 and you ask for [indiscernible] and ask for Persuasion to Profit and they will help you out and mention Mike D. and you will also get a discount on that.

Q: All right. Well cool. All right. So Dave, it has been awesome speaking with you.

A: Thank you.

Q: And congratulations on talking at the Super conference there.

A: Yeah people loved it. It was a great time.

Q: And all the best of luck with the new program that you are introducing and always a pleasure. I really do appreciate the time that you had given me and it’s been great to get to know you and anything I can do for you, please let me know.

Thanks for Reading!

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